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House. To the production of these papers, which would go to publish to the world the condition of particular regiments, and how far they were fit or not for actual service, he should certainly object, and that for reasons which it was, no doubt, unnecessary for him to explain, as it must be obvious to every one how impolitic it would be to give such information to the enemy. As to the general observations with which the noble lord had accompanied his motion, he should not detain their lordships with commenting upon them, as they had already been repeatedly, and in his mind, satisfactorily answered. After a short conversation, two of the motions were negatived, and the other two agreed to.

sent state and condition of the troops [tion which was not already before the which had been employed in the Expedition to the Scheldt. He lamented that circumstances had occurred to divert the attention and the indignation of the country from the authors of that most disastrous and disgraceful Expedition. As far, however, as depended upon him, he should endeavour to keep alive the recollection of such acts of criminal folly, and to cherish the just resentment with which they should be visited. It was matter of surprise and of sorrow to him, that the nation should relax in the manifestation of its heavy displeasure, at the conduct of men who had so wantonly and wickedly sacrificed the most numerous, and best appointed army that ever had sailed from the shores of this country. If the papers he should move for should be laid on the table, their lordships and the public would then see what now remained of that brave and gallant army; and they would thereby necessarily be compelled to turn it seriously in their minds, whether the men, who had thus squandered away and ingloriously sacrificed such a chosen band of British troops, should again have it in their power to inflict a loss so severe, and shame so indelible, on the British arms and nation. Perhaps not a man who had been infected with the Walcheren fever would ever be perfectly restored to the enjoyment of health, or to the service of his country. As some of the papers he intended to move for were already on the table, he should not press the motion that related to information already before the House; at least he should not think it necessary to ground any motion on them. He should, however, urge the production of further information, and to a later period, in order to ascer ain what was the real state of those troops; how many had been infected-how many had recovered -and how many of them were now fit for actual service, The noble lord concluded with moving for different papers, with a view to ascertain these points.

The Earl of Liverpool thought from the avowal of the noble lord who made the motion, that he did not intend to follow it up with any practical measure, and that consequently he had a sufficient parliamentary ground for opposing the motion. But his opposition to the production of some of the papers should not rest solely upon that ground. He should even accede to some of the noble lord's motions, as they called for scarcely any informa

[GAS AND COKE BILL.] Lord Sheffield, in moving the third reading of the Gas Light Bill, said it had been the wish and the endeavour of the Committee to which the Gas and Coke Bill was referred, to ob viate the objections to it. The most diligent search had been made for objections, and he understood most, if not all, had been removed, unless those to the clause which rendered the subscribers separately not answerable, except to the amount of their stock or subscription, and this clause could not be given up without altogether sacrificing the main object of the bill. He observed that great undertakings cannot be promoted and established by individuals, and that therefore it had been generally found expedient to form companies for carrying on several branches of trade, and undertakings which required a large capital, and a steady perseverance not dependant on the exertions or life of an individual.-England owed much of her prosperity to such companies. Incorporated companies were the parents of almost every branch of our foreign commerce; and to encourage them great privileges were granted, and for a long term of years they enjoyed monopolies and exclusive rights, and other advantages, which, when the country became rich and more commercial, were found to be not only unnecessary, but prejudicial, checking enterprize and preventing competition.-The petitioners for this bill desired none of the privileges that were ob jected to in the old charters; they desired no monopoly or exclusive rights, and were satisfied to be limited to the term of 21 years. As to the suggestions which had been thrown out, in direct contradic

tion to the plain meaning of the bill, that if not expressly it would virtually give a monopoly and exclusive rights-that its provisions were obligatory on the public -they were too refined or sublime for his comprehension. Unless the subscribers, who were very numerous, and of course could have little to do with the conduct of the business, were exempt from the operation of the bankrupt laws as is usual in such cases, the undertaking must entirely fall to the ground.-Nothing was desired but what had usuallyand lately been granted to companies of the same nature, viz. insurance companies, navigable canal companies, companies for the supply of large towns with water, to the Flower company, to the Whitstable fishery, to the Northumberland fishery, and the same as was granted to the Highgate archway company, on the very day the objection to this clause was first stated. He was in no shape nor in any degree personally interested in this bill; he was requested to attend to it by some friends, which having done, and having carefully examined the evidence and several statements respecting it, he was convinced that great public benefit might be derived if the undertaking succeeded. It was not merely gas light which would be obtained, and much money saved now paid to foreigners for tallow and oil, but several other articles of, perhaps, still more im portance, such as coke, tar, pitch, asphaltum, ammoniacal liquor, and essential oil, for which we were in a great measure dependant upon other countries; and all these were to be obtained from coal, an article which this country possesses in an eminent degree; and which would not be wasted in the operation, but continue good fuel, and for many purposes in a improved state; and most of them may be procured from slack or refuse coal, which now lies useless in vast heaps, and is considered of no value.

Earl Stanhope mentioned the pernicious effects of the gas, when experiments on it were tried at the Lyceum, four or five years ago, and the danger which might arise in the metropolis, if this mode of lighting was resorted to, from a whole district being suddenly left in darkness through an accident happening to one of the main tubes.

The Duke of Athol defended the bill, and the marquis of Lansdown observed, that a great improvement had taken place in the experiments lately made with the

gas. After some observations from the earl of Lauderdale and lord Redesdale, the bill was read a third time and passed.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Friday, June 1.

[COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.] The House having resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, to which the report of the commissioners for the redemption of the land tax, and the accounts relative to queen Anne's bounty were referred,

The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved, That a sun not exceeding 12,000l. be paid to lords Glenbervie and Auckland, for their services as commissioners of the land tax, from the year 1799, up to the present period.

Mr. Calcraft said, that, without pronouncing any opinion upon the particular services of these two noble lords, in their capacity as commissioners of the land tax, he still was of opinion, that, as they both received large pensions, and particularly as lord Glenbervie held the office of surveyorgeneral of woods and forests, the country had some claim to their services in the office alluded to, without being obliged to grant them such specific remuneration as was now sought by the proposed resolution of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer did not conceive, that merely because persons enjoyed pensions for their former public services, therefore the country had a right to their future labours for such a space of time as ten years, without being bound to render some remuneration for their trouble and responsibility. They had already sat and performed the arduous duties of commissioners, without having received hitherto any remuneration. As their labours were likely to be brought to a close in another year, the Committee would, he trusted, see the propriety of acceding to his proposition. It was an additional recommendation with him to bring forward the present proposition, understanding, that it was the intention of the last administration to have submitted a similar one to the consideration of that House. He begged to be understood as adverting to that point with no other view but this, that he felt more strongly the propriety of making a proposition, which was also supported by their authority.

Mr. Creevey admitted the very great po litical services of lord Auckland, but he could not recognize the claims of lord

Glenbervie, to enjoy at the same time both | Chancellor of the Exchequer would have pension and remuneration.

Sir J. Anstruther took a view of the first appointment of these noble lords, when the extent of the duty was not understood. It became very laborious, and he believed the country was much benefited by their able and arduous exertions. He contended that both the noble lords had a full claim from past services to their pensions, and therefore he could not accede to the objection, that having pensions for former services, they were not to be remunerated for future trouble.

Mr. Calcraft had no notice whatever of such a proposition until it was actually moved in the committee. From what had passed, he did not regret the opposition he made to it; its principle was wholly unjustifiable, and likely to be perverted to very pernicious purposes. It went to establish new offices, to which emolument was attached, without the consent of that house, and in some cases, in a manner wholly evading direct and positive statutes. For instance, lord Glenbervie might be, as he believed he was, a member of that House in 1799-he was then appointed to a duty from which no emolument was known to accrue, but now after ten years a remuneration of 6,000l. was required for him, amounting to a salary of 6001. a year. If such a salary was in contemplation at the time of the appointment, the House would have more duly considered, before it voted such grants; at all events, that noble lord would have been obliged, on accepting the office, to have vacated his seat. By the present proposal of remuneration therefore for past services, new offices were created, and a positive statute evaded. With respect to the merits of the noble lords, however there was a marked distinction. Lord Auckland had discharged great public duties in a most exemplary manner, for which the country was highly grateful, whilst, though much was heard of great remunerations to Lord Glenbervie, very little was known of his public merits. The House ought to pause before it acceded to these demands made every session of parliament, for increasing the salaries of civil officers, at the time that it felt itself wholly unable to add to the scanty subsistence of its meritorious military and naval officers. It should not heighten the grievances of the latter by favouring others, when it was unable to help them. He hoped therefore that, the right hon. the

no objection to let the resolution stand over until the next committee of supply.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer thought the resolution might then pass, and that the discussion could take place on the report, which might be deferred until Tuesday next.

After a desultory conversation it was at length agreed that the resolution itself should be postponed until the next Committee of Supply on Wednesday next.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, then moved, that a sum not exceeding 100,000l. be granted without deduction to the governors of Queen Anne's bounty, to be applied by them for the relief of the poorer clergy. In bringing forward this resolution he felt he had no apology to make, but for the period of the session at which he submitted it to the consideration of parliament. The delay arose altoge ther from a wish on his part to obtain all the information he could upon the subject, before he should submit any proposition to the House respecting it. He was now in possession of the report of the governors of Queen Anne's charity, respecting the disposition of the sum granted last year by parliament, and upon that he felt fully warranted in proposing a similar grant in the present session. The right hon. gent. then detailed to the committee, the steps taken by these gentlemen in the distribution of last year's grant, by affording relief in the first instance to the incumbents of livings under 50l. improved value, then under 60l. and so in succession. He was sure it would be the wish of the Committee that those who had the cure of souls, should have a competent provision. It was desirable before any final arrangement should be proposed, to have a number of accurate and authentic returns, as well with respect to the exact stipends, as to the state of residence, the population, the proportion of the popula tion to the revenue, and the number of livings in each class, under 50l. 601. 100l. and 150l. improved value. There was much difficulty in ascertaining exactly all these particulars, respecting each parish, but it appeared from some of the returns, which had been procured, that, in some parishes, particularly in the populous towns of Manchester, Sheffield, Birming ham, Coventry, the population was out of all proportion to the revenue, not amounting to more than 8d. per head. But the most important of the objects, which he looked

higher orders of that body were so well paid, and in a situation so well able to afford an increase of livings to their inferiors.

Mr. W. Smith thought the object a very proper one; but mentioned, that in the county in which he lived, some of the clergy had talked of collecting tythes in such a way, as to make them a fourth or fifth of the rents of the kingdom. He hardly thought a time when such doctrines were maintained a proper one to load the country with this burthen, when it might be borne by the church revenue.

for from providing for the poorer clergy, was that it would promote the residence of the clergy, an object which he feared would not be accomplished by the act of last session, without the adoption of other accessary measures. The total number of benefices, in England, was 11,731, and out of these 4,412 had resident clergymen, and in the remainder being between six and seven thousand, or nearly twothirds of the whole, the clergymen did not reside. Of those, however, who were returned non-resident, several were strict ly resident either in their own or their friend's houses, thought not legally resi Sir J. Newport was of opinion, that it dent in parsonage houses; and many would have been but handsome in the others who performed the duties were re- higher clergy themselves to have, come sident in adjoining parishes. Upon the forward in aid of their poorer brethren. whole, however, it was clear that non-re- If the first fruits and tentlis had been in sidence prevailed in above a moiety of the hands of the crown at this time, they the whole number of benefices. This would have been amply sufficient for this was a state of things which the Commit-purpose; and even if there were a legal tee would agree with him, ought if possible to be corrected; but it would be matter for future consideration, whether the remedy should be sought in the enforcement of strict residence, or in the adoption of some new regulation, as to pluralities; and as to distance at which residence shall be legal. When the Committee considered the benefits that had resulted from the application of Queen Anne's bounty and of the grant of last session, he was persuaded, that it would cheerfully accede to his motion. On the question being put,

Mr. Tierney expressed strong doubts with respect to the propriety of this grant. The higher clergy, he said, had received all the advantage of the increased value of the first fruits and tenths, and he saw no reason why they should not be called on to contribute to the improvement of the inferior livings. The present session was too far advanced to enter into any extended enquiry or arrangement of this kind; but he would recommend it to ministers to arrange some plan during the recess, that might provide for the better payment of the poorer clergy, without imposing any additional burdens on the people. He thought such a would at present be obnoxious, as the taxes were already too much increased. The pay of the army and navy remained unincreased, and he had no doubt that it would be very unpalatable to the people to have additional burthens imposed on them on the ground of providing for the slergy, when it was considered that the

VOL. XVII,

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difficulty as to the construction of the act of Anne, the higher clergy might perhaps have been expected to make a voluntary grant for the relief of the poorer class of their own body.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer thought the act clear against any claim on the church property. And it would be injurious to disturb that law now, as even a great many of the lay impropriators had purchased upon the faith of it. He did not consider the House as pledged to continue this grant; but he thought it ought to be continued.

Lord Milton concurred in the object, but rather thought there might be a disposition of church property applicable to it. He complained of the little accomodation in churches in great towns for the poor, to which he ascribed in a great measure the alarming increase of meeting houses and sects.

Mr. C. W. Wynn was for a new valua→ tion of benefices for the increase of the first fruits and tenths, or a tax, instead of this, should be imposed on the higher clergy. They all agreed that the inferior livings ought to be raised, the difference was only as to means. The want of churches called more loudly than any thing else for parliamentary interference. He did not think they really made use of the means they had. The cathedral of St. Paul's was almost unoccupied. The aisles might be converted into places of worship for the lower classes of the peo pie, without defacing in any degree ita elegance,

Q [2]

Mr. Wilberforce was glad that no objection had been made to the object itself. The public was very much indebted to the right hon. gent. for the proposition he had brought forward, when they considered the habits and poverty of the clergy and how useful a body of men they were. It was desirable they should be enabled to bring up their families respectably, with all due economy, no doubt, but so as to enable their sons to fill up their places in the church, to whom alone they could look for a valuable succession of inferior clergy. He lamented the want of churches and the want of attention to the accommodation of the poor. He was desirous that churches should be erected by the public; but if not, by individuals. He did not approve of the idea which had been thrown out that the rich and the poor should attend at different hours. One of the chief objects of public worship was to bring them all together. Even in those countries where it was reckoned pollution for one cast to mingle with another, they all met together at the temple. This grant would increase the comforts of the poor rather than detract from them. The spreading of Christianity was the way to encourage charity. Before Christianity the name was unknown; and here where Christianity prevailed in the purest shape, charity must be prevalent in a high degree.

were appropriated by the crown: No increase had since taken place in the valuation, though times had very much altered. It was in the power of the crown at any time to renew the valuation, and this privilege, along with the fund itself, had been transferred by the act of queen Anne to improve the poorer livings of the clergy. If a new and fair valuation were now made, there would be no want of means to augment those livings without burdening the people, It was evident that the act of queen Anne did not mean to confer a benefit on the high, but the poorer clergy; but if no new valuations were to be admitted, the superior clergy, it was unquestionable, would alone reap the advantage.

The Attorney General supported the opinion of his hon. and learned friend (the Solicitor General) and contended that parliament had no power, after the act of queen Anne, to make any new valuation, as the amount by that act was fixed.

Mr. Tierney, with all due deference for so high an authority, had still great doubts on the point.

Mr. A. Baring thought it a very serious subject, and contended that a proper distribution of the church revenue would have answered the purpose. He ascribed the increase of sectaries and meetinghouses to the negligent or improper conduct of some of the clergy in the great towns. Those in the country who performed the greatest part of the duty were the least adequately remunerated.

The Resolution was then put and carried.

Mr. Creevey contended in favour of a new valuation of benefices. The church gained by every improvement in the country, without any risk, and it was too hard that the people should be called on to give them so much more from the [BRIBERY PREVENTION BILL.] Mr. C. taxes. The church was already suffi-W. Wynn, on account of the urgency and ciently endowed, and parliament, he importance of the other business which the contended, had no right to create a new House expected to come on, would very fund out of taxation. The act of queen shortly state the nature of the bill it was Anne, he contended, implied that the his wish to introduce. He did not comwhole of the first fruits in their improved plain of the existing laws not punishing value, were to be applied to that fund. sufficiently the crime of bribery and corruption in the election of members of parliament, but what he complained of was that too much difficulty existed in prov ing them. The object of his bill would be therefore to remedy this evil, and to provide for the indemnification of wit nesses, whom it might be necessary to ex amine; and also to do away that claus which secured petitioners in election cases from being interrogated. He ac cordingly moved for leave to bring in bill to amend the acts on the subject bribery and corruption.

The Solicitor General entered his protest against this doctrine, and argued that ao doubt could be entertained on the subject of the statute. He denied that conformably to that act a valuation could be made, or consistently with justice such a measure could be resorted to.

Mr. H. Martin was surprised to hear the doctrine advanced by the hon. gent. He referred to the act of queen Anne, and the act of the 26th of Henry 8. By that of Henry 8, the first fruits and tenths, that had before that time gone to the pope,

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