Deducting from this the

Surplus of..

Sinking fund...
Refunds..

Increase of debt..

$1,029,171 97
1,922,525 20

1,044 72 2,952,741 89

..$45,969,419 33

been comparing the figures of to-day with the lean period of a year ago, but about this time last year the business began to improve. The last months of the preceding fiscal year were months showing some improvement, and therefore we can That was the largest increase of debt months (or rather three and a half months). not expect that during the remaining four that has taken place in any year since I of the year, there will be as rapid increase have had the honour of dealing with the as we have observed during the eight finances of the country. I had estimated months. At all events there will undoubtthat the net debt would be increased dur- edly be some increase. For the remaining ing the year by $46,000,000; the actual in- period of the year, up to the 31st Marchcrease was $45,969,419. The Transconti- being four months as in the figures I prenental railway and the Quebec bridge re- sent and about three and a half months present of this debt $31,317,132.23. The re- actually from to-day-I propose to allow mainder of the increase of the debt was for an increase of $2,800,000. On that basis caused by other expenditures on capital our revenue for the current year will apand special account. In former years we proximate $97,500,000, or nearly one and a had been able to provide for most expen-half million dollars better than the record ditures of that kind out of our income, but last year, with a falling off of $11,000,000 in our revenue, it was not possible to provide for these without some addition to the public debt.

Coming now to the current fiscal year 1909-10, I am glad to be able to have a more cheerful story to tell. There are still three and a half months of the year to run and the books of account do not close until some considerable time after the end of the fiscal year, so that it is difficult to make more than an approximate estimate at the present stage. It is, however, gratifying to us all to know that the unfavourable conditions of the former year have passed away. There has been a very gratifying recovery; we have been blessed with abundant harvests; in almost every department of labour in which our people are engaged there has been increased activity; we have recovered the lost ground in our revenue and we are now moving forward to even higher records. The revenue for 1909-10that is the current year-to December 1, was $64,656,509.92, which represents an increase over the revenue for the corresponding period of the previous year of $9,541,282.75. Thus in eight months we have gained nine and a half million dollars of revenue over the figures of the corresponding period of the past year, which represents an increase of about $1,200,000 per month. The revenue for the last four months of the previous year amounted to $29,978,177.18. If we assume that we shall receive for the remainder of this year the same amount as we received during the corresponding period of last year this will make our revenue for the entire current year $94,634,687.10. But we may reasonably assume that there will be some further increase during these remaining four months, just what the amount of that increase may be is a point upon which I would speak with some caution. Hitherto in our comparisons between the present year and the next proceding year we have

year of 1907-8. I think my estimate is a safe one. It may be too conservative; it is quite possible that during the remaining four months of the year we shall make a greater increase than that I ventured to anticipate. It is quite possible that we shall come near the one hundred million dollar mark during the present year, but I do not think it is safe to estimate quite that at present.

Coming now to the question of our expenditure during the current year; it will be remembered that in view of the falling off in our revenue and the general check that had occurred in the business of the country, at the last session of parliament we severely pruned our estimates and appropriations, and many meritorious works which we would gladly have dealt with under more favourable conditions had to be laid aside.

Our expenditure on consolidated fund for the year 1908-9 was a little over $84,000,000. I estimate that in the current year the expenditure chargeable to income will not exceed $81,000,000. That is to say, we shall have a reduction of expenditure chargeable to income in the present year of $3,000,000 as compared with the figures of the preceding year. And, so, as respects the finances of this year the dominant note of the budget must be in the first place a large increase in revenue and in the second place a very substantial reduction in expenditure.

With a revenue of $97,500,000, which as I have stated is on a conservative basis, and an expenditure chargeable to income of $81,000,000, I estimate that there will be a balance this year, by way of surplus, amounting to sixteen and a half million dollars. I shall not be surprised if the expenditure proves to be a little less and the revenue somewhat more, which, of course, would give us a somewhat larger surplus.

Now, we come to the question of the capital and special expenditure during the

objection to any elimination of what is useless in the House, any abbreviation of what now may be somewhat too lengthy, I for one have no idea at all of submitting without protest to any of the well defined liberties of this House as a parliamentary body being infringed upon.

abusing the privilege of debate, as there is of abusing everything else. In asking for a committee of this kind, we want to have a discussion on the subject with a view to arriving at a unanimous conclusion on such matters as we can, though there may be some other matters as to which we may not agree. But when we come to the discussion of the report of the committee, it will be time enough for the House to make up its mind.

Motion agreed to.

GERMANY.

Mr. BURRELL. I desire to invite the attention of the Prime Minister to a despatch which appears in the Ottawa 'Free Press' of yesterday:

Mr. HUGHES. It is true that on going into Committee of Supply every member may raise any subject in order and discuss it. But going into Committee of Supply is a very irregular procedure. So far as I am concerned, I heartily concur in all that has been said as to the necessity of pre- EXPULSION OF A CANADIAN FROM serving liberty of debate in this House, and I would impress upon that committee the view I hold, at all events, and I think it is in the interest of parliamentary procedure and of the country at large, that there should be an opportunity on any occasion, even though the House be not going into Committee of Supply, to discuss freely matters relevant and important to the country. I trust that in revising the rules there will be no attempt to curtail the liberty of debate, or to hamper members from expressing in a proper manner the views they may wish to utter concerning the welfare of the ountry.

Mr. SPROULE. Rumours have been prevalent for some time past in the government press that the government intended to revise the rules of the House at an early date, and to introduce what is known as the closure. I would like to ask the First Minister if that is the intention in this revision of the rules. I would like to say that so far as I can judge the temper of parliamentarians generally, they regard the freedom of debate as one of the dearest

rights of the representatives of the people, and if any attempt is made under the guise of amending the rules to prevent the freest discussion of all public questions, I can only say that in my judgment the government will invite a good deal of trouble.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER. I can assure my hon. friend (Mr. Sproule) that the government has no intention of using the mafority now supporting it in this House to curtail any of the rights and privileges of meribers of this parliament. We prize them as highly on this side as hon. gentlemen do on the other side. I propose that the rules of the House be referred to this committee in order to have a discussion upon them, particularly by those minds in the House who I think are the most entitled by their long experience to give a practical opinion. If it had been the intention to introduce at once what my hon. friend calls curtailment of the privileges of parliament, we might have done it as it has been done in England, though I do not think it was a curtailment of the privileges of parliament. There is such a thing as

A despatch to the New York 'Herald' from Dresden says:

The Canadian colony here wants the British minister resident to make representations in the Scott case. Mr. Scott, who was a Canadian student, was expelled from Saxony after paying a fine for an alleged attack upon a peasant. Mr. Scott said he acted in self defence, but he paid the fine. The order of expulsion was in the nature of an alternative-leaving or going to prison.

Freiberg students, when the order of expulsion was issued, telegraphed the London Foreign Office, asking what could be done, to which the reply came:

Consult the British Consul at Leipsic, who is in charge of the Freiberg district.'

Up to the present no single official step in the shape of a protest has been made. Mr. Scott had to leave on Wednesday morning. Mr. Irvine Roberts, of Toronto, a solicitor now here, says British subjects appear to be absolutely without protection in Germany because the consuls are German themselves and are disinclined to prejudice themselves by strong action. An American citizen could not be so arbitrarily expelled without a vigorous 'kick' from Washington.

Then we have another despatch to the Canadian Associated Press, which appears this morning to the following effect;

Berlin, Dec. 13.-A Canadian student, G. S. Scott, Toronto, having received notice of expulsion from Saxony after being convicted of inflicting serious bodily injury on a peasant, some fellow students appealed to the British Foreign Office to intervene. The British of Cologne and Dresden also entered a protest, but the British Consul General says he has received no information enabling him to intervene.

Now, Mr. Speaker, if the press reports I have read are substantially correct, I think the case is well worthy the attention of this government. Some of us personally have had occasion to take knowledge of the bureaucratic methods in operation in Dresden, particularly, and in other German states, where a man can hardly invite

Mr. FIELDING. I am glad my hon. bounty on wire rods which is not limited friend has called attention to that. We in time. There is a bounty on lead, which have discussed from time to time the ques- is limited to a term of years, and there tion of charging these bounties to capi- is a bounty on oil which is not limited. tal account. My hon. friend is probably The chief bounties, however, are those paid aware of the view which I have expressed to the iron and steel industry, and these from time to time, that the bounty is on will expire on the 31st of December, all fours with the payment of railway sub- 1910. There is a provision in the Act that sidies, which in the time of my hon. friend bounties for electric smelting may be exas well as in our time have been charged tended for two years longer. When the to capital or special expenditure. When bounties were last readjusted, we were you pay a railway subsidy to the Canadian assured that parties were about engaging Pacific, the Grand Trunk, the Canadian in electric smelting, and as it would take Northern, or any other railway company, some time to erect their plant, they asked you have nothing to show for your money. for an extension of a couple of years, and The railway belongs to the company. Never- it was granted. As no action has been theless we charge the subsidy to capital. taken under that provision of the Act, I If you pay bounties for the temporary as- take it that the chief bounties on sistance of a great industry, you have noth- iron and steel will expire next year. ing immediately to show for your money. Thereafter the bounties paid will not The property is the property of the com- be very large, and whether we shall pany, and the bounty has gone into the then charge them to income or to treasury of the company, as in the case of capital or special account, may be a matthe railway subsidy. But you believe that ter to be fairly considered at that time. good has come to the country through the development of its trade and commerce, and that is the justification of the bounty. Mr. FOSTER. How about steamship sub

sidies?

Mr. FIELDING. I have never been able to regard steamship subsidies as merely temporary, for they go on from year to year. The theory of our bounties is that they are temporary aids. It is true, they have lasted somewhat longer than some of us expected; but they stand in the same relation to the country as railway subsidies. In neither case have you any visible property to represent the money paid, but in both cases you get your return in the general development of trade.

Sometimes these bounties are spoken of as if they had some relation to the question of a surplus or a deficit. Speaking generally, they have no such relation, except as to the volume of the surplus. In all the years that we have charged these bounties to capital or special account, except one, they would not have affected the question of a surplus or a deficit. The one exception was last year, when the surplus was a small one, and when, if we had charged the bounties to income, we would have had a deficit of $1,400,000. But if you take all the years in which we have paid bounties, the surpluses aggregated $131,088,259, whereas the bounties during the same period have amounted to only $18,822,751. Therefore while in one year the payment of the bounties out of income would have affected the question of a surplus, if you take the whole period, it would not have affected the question of a surplus at all. The chief bounties on iron and steel will expire on the 31st of December, 1910, that is, the bounties on pig iron, iron puddled bars and steel ingots. There is a

In this connection, I would like to invite the attention of the House to the question of what these bounties have accomplished. I know that with some excellent citizens of Canada the idea of bounties is not popular. More than once I have met people of the very best class who shake their heads over the idea. I think, however, that it can be clearly shown that the treasury of Canada has not lost one dollar from the payment of bounties. The iron and steel industries which have been established in the country have undoubtedly had a great effect in the development of the trade in Canada. Just how far the influence of a debate. I have no doubt that hon. gentlesteel industry is felt may be a matter of men have found many cases where business has been influenced favourably a long distance from the location of an iron and steel plant; I have found such cases myself; and it must be remembered that in all the principal trade centres of Canada vast quantities of goods have been purchased and sold to these steel ports, as I may describe them. The cities of Toronto, Montreal, Quebec, Halifax and St. John will all testify that their merchants have sold great quantities of goods to these steel making ports. The duties on these goods have been paid at Toronto, Montreal, Quebec, Halifax and St. John, as the case may be. It is not possible to measure just what these duties have amounted to, but they would not have been paid if there had not been the consumers of these goods at the steel ports. I do not think it is too much to say that millions of dollars have been paid into the Dominion treasury in that way at ports far removed from the steel ports themselves; and in considering what the government have received in return for the bounties, it would be well to bear that in mind.

But

That was the largest increase of debt that has taken place in any year since I have had the honour of dealing with the finances of the country. I had estimated that the net debt would be increased during the year by $46,000,000; the actual increase was $45,969,419. The Transcontinental railway and the Quebec bridge represent of this debt $31,317,132.23. The remainder of the increase of the debt was caused by other expenditures on capital and special account. In former years we had been able to provide for most expenditures of that kind out of our income, but last year, with a falling off of $11,000,000 in our revenue, it was not possible to provide for these without some addition to the public debt.

away.

Coming now to the current fiscal year 1909-10, I am glad to be able to have a more cheerful story to tell. There are still three and a half months of the year to run and the books of account do not close until some considerable time after the end of the fiscal year, so that it is difficult to make more than an approximate estimate at the present stage. It is, however, gratifying to us all to know that the unfavourable conditions of the former year have passed There has been a very gratifying recovery; we have been blessed with abundant harvests; in almost every department of labour in which our people are engaged there has been increased activity; we have recovered the lost ground in our revenue and we are now moving forward to even higher records. The revenue for 1909-10that is the current year-to December 1, was $64,656,509.92, which represents an increase over the revenue for the corresponding period of the previous year of $9,541,282.75. Thus in eight months we have gained nine and a half million dollars of revenue over the figures of the corresponding period of the past year, which represents an increase of about $1,200,000 per month. The revenue for the last four months of the previous year amounted to $29,978,177.18. If we assume that we shall receive for the remainder of this year the same amount as we received during the corresponding period of last year this will make our revenue for the entire current year $94,634,687.10. But we may reasonably assume that there will be some further increase during these remaining four months, just what the amount of that increase may be is a point upon which I would speak with some caution. Hitherto our comparisons between the present year and the next proceding year we have

in

been comparing the figures of to-day with the lean period of a year ago, but about this time last year the business began to improve. The last months of the preceding fiscal year were months showing some improvement, and therefore we can not expect that during the remaining four months (or rather three and a half months). of the year, there will be as rapid increase as we have observed during the eight months. At all events there will undoubtedly be some increase. For the remaining period of the year, up to the 31st Marchbeing four months as in the figures I present and about three and a half months actually from to-day-I propose to allow for an increase of $2,800,000. On that basis our revenue for the current year will approximate $97,500,000, or nearly one and a half million dollars better than the record year of 1907-8. I think my estimate is a safe one. It may be too conservative; it is quite possible that during the remaining four months of the year we shall make a greater increase than that I ventured to anticipate. It is quite possible that we shall come near the one hundred million dollar mark during the present year, but I do not think it is safe to estimate quite that at present.

Coming now to the question of our expenditure during the current year; it will be remembered that in view of the falling off in our revenue and the general check that had occurred in the business of the country, at the last session of parliament we severely pruned our estimates and appropriations, and many meritorious works which we would gladly have dealt with under more favourable conditions had to be laid aside.

Our expenditure on consolidated fund for the year 1908-9 was a little over $84,000,000. I estimate that in the current year the expenditure chargeable to income will not exceed $81,000,000. That is to say, we shall have a reduction of expenditure chargeable to income in the present year of $3,000,000 as compared with the figures of the preceding year. And, so, as respects the finances of this year the dominant note of the budget must be in the first place a large increase in revenue and in the second place a very substantial reduction in expenditure.

With a revenue of $97,500,000, which as I have stated is on a conservative basis, and an expenditure chargeable to income of $81,000,000, I estimate that there will be a balance this year, by way of surplus, amounting to sixteen and a half million dollars. I shall not be surprised if the expenditure proves to be a little less and the revenue somewhat more, which, of course, would give us a somewhat larger surplus.

Now, we come to the question of the capital and special expenditure during the