241 NOVEMBER 19, 1909 This Labour Mr. J. D. TAYLOR. Gazette according to the imprint is printed by C. H. Parmelee, Printer to the King's Most Excellent Majesty' and on it there is a union label. I find that on a copy of the estimates which I have in my Does that hand there is no union label. explain the different fashion of printing these two official documents? Mr. KING. Some nine or ten years ago when the Labour Gazette ed as an indication that the work was per- Mr. KING. That is exactly what I said. Mr. KING. It usually does mean that, but not always. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. This is one illuswas first pub-tration. Are there any others? lished the union label was put on as an indication that the work was being performed under fair conditions. I understand that the Government Printing Bureau was an open shop, but notwithstanding that, the conditions were such that those controlling the label authorized the Printing Bureau to use it on the Labour Gazette.' As it was a publication which was circulating largely among the working classes it was thought advisable to have the label put on it under these circumstances, and there does not seem to be any reason to discontinue the practice. case of Mr. KING. I think there are others. the min one at Mr. KING. I could not name successor. to his Mr. J. D. TAYLOR. Last session I asked the then Minister of Labour whether he would be kind enough to use his influence with the Postmaster General to have the fair wage clause inserted in all postal contracts. I suppose that, owing to the relationship then existing between the MinMr. J. D. TAYLOR. That is, that in the ister of Labour and the Postmaster Gena publication circulating largely eral, he handed that matter over I would like to ask the present disamong the labouring classes the union label is attached in order to lead the lab- Minister of Labour whether he has ouring classes to believe that the govern-cussed that with the Postmaster General, and whether there is any prospect of the ment printing is carried on under the conditions called for by the appearance of that fair wage clause being attached to contracts union label, whereas as a matter of fact of the Post Office Department. the government printing is not carried on under these conditions, and the government printing office is not what they call a fair office, to take the expression used by the minister. Mr. KING. My present impression is that the fair wage clause forms a part of ment. In connection with contracts every contract of the Post Office Departpostal supplies, such as letter carriers' uniMr. KING. I do not remember having forms and the like, the Department of Laused the expression 'fair' office. 6 for bour has been asked to approve of schebe-dules of rates of wages of firms_tendering for this class of work before the Post Office Department would make the contract, and been refused by the Post Office Department I believe that in some cases contracts have because of the unwillingness of some firms as fair and to pay what were regarded reasonable wages. Mr. J. D. TAYLOR. Are we to understand that the Postmaster General submits ceives from him an opinion whether they all mail to the Minister of Labour and reprovide for the payment of fair wages for the work performed? Mr. J. D. TAYLOR. My hon. friend side me tells me that the expression used I beopen shop.' by the minister was lieve the open shop is not recognized by union labour as the ideal condition. I think that many trade Mr. KING. unionists would prefer to have the closed shop, but I do not think that trade unionists necessarily hold that because a shop is an open shop the conditions may not be as fair as they are in a closed shop. The conditions that are important to labour are the hours of labour, the wages paid, and Mr. KING. I was speaking with referthe sanitary conditions under which the employees work; all of these conditions are excellent at the Government Print-ence to supplies furnished to the Post Ofthose who fice Department. I had not in mind the ing Bureau. That being so are interested in seeing such conditions question of carrying the mails. I have no furthered by means of the label were quite doubt, however, that the desire of the Postagreeable that the label should be put on the Labour Gazette' when it was printed at the Government Bureau notwithstanding that the Bureau was not a closed shop. I understand the en master General would be to see that a fair rate of wages was paid to everybody parent that such was not the case, I am gaged in that work, and if it became apsure that he would be willing and glad to confer with the Department of Labour on the subject. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. Is there any increase in that? Mr. KING. There is an increase, which however is more apparent than real. Heretofore the amount of money required for purposes included under the head of contingencies has been voted in the miscel laneous vote, which covered the entire expenditure of the Department of Labour. This year the amount has been separated so as to bring the contingencies under one head. Against an increase of $10,550 there should be offset a reduction of $7,400 in the vote being asked this year as compared with 1909-10, which makes a net increase of only $3,150. Such items as printing and stationery, sundries and clerical and other assistance, will hereafter be paid out contingencies, in conformity with the prac tice in other departments. I might that the staff is larger than before. minister's office and the minister's secretary's office come into consideration in this connection, as well as expenses for travelling on the part of the fair wage officers and other officers connected with the administration of the Industrial Disputes Act and other measures There is also an additional amount put in to enable the department to purchase necessary books and periodicals. of say The Department of Customs-salaries, $244,975. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. I suppose the minister thinks the increase is worthy of a little explanation. Hon. WM. PATERSON (Minister of Customs). The committee will observe that we are proposing to have six additional clerks. We propose to put them in the second division, subdivision B, ranging from $800 to $1,600, starting them at the minimum. There are statutory increases amounting to $4,525; and there is the proposed promotion of six officers from the third division B, to the third division A. Three of these now receive $800 and three $750. They will be promoted to the minimum of subdivision A, namely, $900. That means increases of three at $100 and three at $150, a total of $750. But we are not asking for that much more money, because certain officers have replaced other officers at lower rates of salary. For instance, a vacant clerkship in the second division B, of an estimated salary of $800, caused by the death of Mr. Rochester in December, was filled by the appointment of T. L. Burns in the third division at $750, resulting in a decrease of $50. Then, a vacant clerkship in the second division B, at an estimated salary of $900, caused by the resignation of F. A. Cleminson in September, 1908, was filled by the appointment of Mr. Ryder in the third division B at $750, making a decrease of $50. A new clerkship in the second division B at an estimated salary of $800, was filled by the appointment of John Nolan in the third division at $750, making another decrease of $50. A vacant clerkship in the second division B, caused by the death of R. McConnell in June, 1909, his estimated salary being $1,250, was filled by the appointment of H. L. Carson in the same division at a minimum salary of $800, making a decrease of $450. Then, Mr. Finnigan, a clerk in the second division, subdivision B, whose estimated salary last year was $1,150, was transferred to the outOctober, 1, 1909. This vacancy is estimatside service at the port of London, on ed to be filled by the appointment of a clerk in the same division at a minimum salary of $800. There is a decrease there of division, subdivision B, whose estimated $350. Mr. Methot, a clerk in the second salary for 1909-10, was $1,200, was replaced by Mr. A. B. Sowter, an officer of the outside service at Winchester, B.C., who came in at $1,000, a decrease of $200. A vacancy in the third division, subdivision A, caused by the resignation of J. N. Cram, whose estimated salary was $950, was filled by the appointment of Mr. A. S. Ogilvy at the minimum salary of $500, a decrease of $450. Of the amount provided for flat increases, $23,900, the sum of $800 was unused, $600 in the second division and $200 in the lower grades. As the estimates for 1909-10 were prepared on the basis of officers who were transferred from outside votes receiving their statutory increases from the first of April, whereas they were only granted those increases from the first of October, there was an over-estimate of $1,275. Allowing for these reductions, we have $3,675 as the net increase that we are providing for. The six additional officers we propose to bring in, and for whom we provide $4,800 are expected to be required, perhaps, in the statistical branch, owing to the operation of the French treaty. Of course, we must keep a detailed record of that trade for statistical purposes. Hitherto, under the more limited treaty that has been in existence, there was not much work involved, but the new treaty with its wider scope will make necessary additions to the staff of the Statistical Department. 245 NOVEMBER 19, 1909 Mr. R. L. BORDEN. I do not understand to me. that. Why should it be so? Mr. PATERSON. We shall have to open another set of books and have a special column in our returns because of the treaty. With the few articles coming in under the old treaty, the clerks could note these entries as they came to them and make up comparatively little labour. But now this special column will have to be added, and we shall be able to give, month by month, in our unrevised statement, statistics with reference to that trade. their tables with Mr. R. L. BORDEN. I would like to understand the minister's theory on this subject. What is it that makes the preparation of these statistics more difficult? Suppose there were no treaty at all, and you had exactly the same amount of imports and exports, would these additional assistants be required? I ask purely for information. Mr. PATERSON. I do not wonder that the hon. member (Mr. R. L. Borden) asks the question for I asked it myself when the proposition first came before me The same idea occurred to me that, I suppose, is in the mind of the hon. member-that if more goods come in from France there might be so many less come in from other countries. But, under the old treaty, when an invoice came before our statistical officers, they could pick out the articles coming under the treaty, as they were few, and by merely keeping a running memorandum, it was easy to sum, them up. But now that the French treaty will embrace a very large number of articles, and with other nations as well as France receiving the benefit of this most favoured nations treatment, there will be many shipments coming in under the treaty-most of them from France, of course, but some from other countries, making it necessary to keep, day by day, a regular tabulated record which will show the workings of the treaty. But I further put my officers under six men. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. There is a very sim- Oh, yes, but what a Mr. PATERSON. misfortune that would be. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. To these men who would not get their appointments. As far Is it proposed to Mr. PATERSON. The intention is to have on the margin the countries for which goods are imported as they are in the genWe will apply the same thing eral tariff in the trade and navigation reto the intermediate tariff so that you will turns now. see what other countries are participating and to what extent the trade with France has developed. Then we will have Mr. HENDERSON. to go all through the trade and navigation returns to see what that increase is. Mr. PATERSON. Unless we do it for you. We have summaries and we will try and do that. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. What is the meanknowing of the increase in contingencies? Mr. PATERSON. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. I do not Mr. PATERSON. It is the intermediate tariff. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. That is, you have a third tariff? Mr. PATERSON. Yes, I should have said that. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. The minister thinks it really necessary to have these additional officers? Mr PATERSON. I questioned it, just as the hon. member does. It was explained Under the Civil Service Act we are empowered to employ clerical and other assistance temporarily as for official but without such a vote as this instance in the case of the illness of an clerks. I cannot say that all or any of this there is no provision for paying these extra will be expended. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. The commissioner recommends it, does he? Mr. PATERSON. Oh surely. Department of Railways and Canals-Civil $8,000, $130,187.50. government, salaries including M. J. Butler at Hon. GEO. P. GRAHAM (Minister of Railways and Canals). By a glance at the estimates, it will be seen there is a reduction of $9,500. The number of clerks is reduced by six. In one division there is an increase of one. That is caused by the promotion of Mr. Little, the accountant in the department, to the first division subdivision A, which was done in the usual way through the Civil Service Commission. During the last five years I think Mr. Little has handled over $139,000,000. He is one of the most important officials we have and has been in the service some 28 years. That is the only increase in any class and there is a decrease in the total expenditure of $9,500. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. It is interesting to observe that a decrease is really an increase. Where is the increase in this case? Mr. GRAHAM. There is absolutely no increase in the total. The decrease comes from the fact that while some officials have statutory increases, and Mr. Little's salary will be increased in promoting him from one class to the other, we drop some six clerks from the total that were in the estimates of last year. So we have a net increase in the expenditure of $9,500. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. Is there an actual decrease in the number of clerks employed? Mr. GRAHAM. The decrease is rather in the estimate of last year. We had several vacancies in the department, and in our reorganization I came to the conclusion that we could get along without filling those vacancies, and they are dropped from the reorganization. Contingencies, $15,000. Mr. STANFIELD. Is it the intention to start a purchasing agency in Ottawa to buy supplies for the Intercolonial? the Intercolonial we are establishing a purMr. GRAHAM. Yes, in connection with in the Intercolonial estimates. But we inchasing agency. Of course that will come tend to have a purchasing agency under the direct control of the department. Mr. HENDERSON. Where is this printing done? Mr. GRAHAM. I think our departmental work and our reports are all printed at the Printing Bureau, but I am not positive. It all comes through the King's Printer at least. Mr. HENDERSON. So did the report of the Department of Labour come through the King's Printer, it bore his impress, and yet it seemed to have been farmed out. I do not know whether the Minister of Railways is engaged in farming operations as well as the Minister of Labour. Mr. GRAHAM. The head of the Printing Bureau would have to say that, personally I do not know. We get our report from the King's Printer, I imagine it is done at the Printing Bureau. Mr. DANIEL. Are tenders asked for the supply of any of this stationery? Mr. GRAHAM. I stated before that we do not ask for tenders for stationery, our printed material is supplied by the King's Printer. The head of that department would be able to say how it is done. Mr. DANIEL. I understand your print Mr. GRAHAM. This is the same figure ing is done there, I was referring to staas it has been for years. tionery. Mr. PUGSLEY. There is a stationery department to which all requisitions go for stationery. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. Who is the head of that department? Mr. GRAHAM. The Secretary of State is the head of the Printing Bureau, and of the Stationery Department as well. Mr. PATERSON. When the Secretary of State is here he will be able to show that it is all right. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. He may be able to say it is all right, but he ought to be here to say it. It is not satisfactory to be told that we should get information from some one else who is not here. If that information is necessary from some one else, that person ought to be here to give it. Mr. PATERSON. Does the hon. gentleman mean the supplying of stationery to all the departments? Mr. R. L. BORDEN. An inquiry is made as to whether there are tenders; the 249 NOVEMBER 19, 1909 minister says he does not know, we will Mr. PATERSON. He will no doubt give it when he is here passing the estimates in his department. Mr. GRAHAM. So far as an item in any ask department is concerned, we do not a requisition for it. for tenders, we send When the Department of the Secretary of State comes up, all this will be a matter for criticism, how he does all this. we could get Mr. GRAHAM. As to buying by tender. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. The Minister of Cus Mr. HENDERSON. In the meantime you toms says that this is a very proper queshave got your money voted. Mr. DANIEL. This is the first time I have learned that you apply to the Secretary of State with your requisitions for stationery. All I have heard mentioned before was the Printing Bureau. friend will Mr. GRAHAM. My hon. understand that no person has said that he applied to the Secretary of State. Requisitions are made to the King's Printer. The question was asked who is the head of the department; it is the Secretary of State. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. Certainly he is the King's Printer for the purpose of giving incharge formation to this House. Is it a from one department to the other, as if it were an actual purchase, or what is the system? find Mr. GRAHAM. I think you will we are responsible to the King's Printer in cash, as if it were a transaction betwen our some outside printing department and establishment. Mr. R. L. BORDEN. He supplies the other departments at certain prices, and the question is whether or not, in laying in those supplies, he adopts the system of tender, and no one knows anything about it. Mr. GRAHAM. He will be able to tell you that. I have no doubt he Mr. PATERSON. does apply for tenders in many cases. Mr. ARMSTRONG. We tried to obtain from the Minister of Labour some information in regard to the printing done in the Printing Bureau, and he finally gave us to understand that it was done by the Free Press Printing Company in this town, and apparently not done by tender at all. That Ceritem this year amounts to $23,300. tainly it is a proper question to ask, and there should be some information. Mr. GRAHAM. Perhaps the head of that department will say when his department is under discussion that he did get tenders for it. tion when the Secretary of State is in his Department of Marine and Fisheries-Salaries, $250,150. Hon. L. P. BRODEUR (Minister of Marine and Fisheries). The amount voted last year for this item was $247,830. This year $250,150 is asked, or an increase of $2,320. The increase is made up as follows: In the increase of $600 to six officers who have not first division, subdivision 'A', there is an reached the maximum of their class. In the first division, subdivision 'B', there is a decrease of $750. The decrease is due to the fact that five of the officers who have reached the maximum salary have dropped out and their places will be filled by officers at the minimum salary. Mr. HENDERSON. What becomes of the some other branch? Mr. BRODEUR. Yes, they have gone up |