Senator McGREGOR.—I do. But, if it was subdivided into farms, there would be a couple of hundred farmers on it. These farmers would obtain £4 per acre per annum from the land in produce, but, as that sum would have to be distributed amongst 200 families, it would not amount to much. That is why men prefer to hold large areas under sheep or cattle, because they can secure a large income without trouble. But it is in the interests of the community that the land should be divided, and that people should be living on it, producing for their own benefit and the benefit of the whole country. I do not think I need say any more about the land question. But I propose to offer a few observations in respect of the industrial question. Senator Walker was very emphatic in expressing his opinions regarding the Broken Hill strike. Broken Hill seems to be a thorn in his side.

would have hesitated before driving the men into the position which they were forced to take up. I wish, however, to deal specially with the remarks of Senator Walker, who, I may say in passing, has fallen in my estimation, because he is a reader of the Sunday Times. As a good Presbyterian, he must be familiar with the commandment which says "Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. In it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates." I would ask the honorable senator if that was the law at Broken Hill and Port Pirie? Was not that the very stumbling block in the way of a settlement of the dispute between the men and the authorities? Were not the directors and the mine managers willing to

strikers

Senator MCGREGOR.-The were led by a man who knew what he was doing, and who has done his work very well. Not only the people of Broken Hill, but those of the whole of Australia, will in years to come reap benefit from his action. Simply because a few hundred were placed in a difficult position owing to the greed of a few individuals at Broken Hill

men

Senator WALKER.-The strikers have lost a very large sum owing to their own stupidity.

Senator MCGREGOR.-They have lost nothing. They are no worse off to-day than they were when the strike started.

Senator DOBSON.-The Vice-President

of the Executive Council will tell us that black is white.

Senator McGREGOR.-I repeat that the men are no worse off to-day than they were previously. When the strike started they were in good health and spirits, but they had no money. Now that the strike is over they are still in good health and spirits, but they have no money. What is the difference, therefore, between their positions? Senator Walker ought to know, as he is accustomed to deal with calculations of that description. The men have fought a good fight, not only in their own interests, but in those of the people of Australia. I am sure that if the directors of the Broken Hill Proprietary Company had known the character of the struggle into which they were about to enter, they

did they not kick at allowing the latter to work only six days a week? The honorable senator knows that it is so, no matter how he may quibble. May I ask him whether, as a good Presbyterian, he believes in that state of things? Doubtless he believes that if his ox or his ass has fallen into a ditch it is right that he should drag him out on a Sunday. But is the ox

or the ass at Broken Hill or Port Pirie likely to fall into a ditch? Does he not know that at Broken Hill and Port Pirle there is no difficulty in the way of the miners working only six days a week?

Senator DOBSON.-Does the honorable senator's wife or maid, cook his dinner on Sunday?

Senator McGREGOR.-I would fast all day rather than compel anybody to work for me on Sundays. My wife has never said a word to me about any matter of that description. But the men at Port Pirie and Broken Hill have objected to work seven days a week all the year round. Senator DOBSON.-Seven shifts. Senator MCGREGOR.-Is not

seven days?

that

Senator DOBSON. -No man is compelled to do it against his conscience.

Senator MCGREGOR.-They are compelled to do it or to leave their employment.

Senator DOBSON.-Nonsense. Senator MCGREGOR.-I know more than does the honorable senator. He has never visited Broken Hill.

Senator DOBSON.-I have been there twice.

Senator McGREGOR.-Then the honorable senator did not go to the right place to obtain reliable information. I challenge him to ask the manager of the Broken Hill Proprietary Company or of the Smelting Works at Port Pirie, whether it is not a fact that they required men to work seven days a week. I have been a working man all my life, and have been associated with working men, and the honorable senator knows that there has never been an occasion upon which, when human life or property was at stake, working men were unwilling to work, not eight hours, but twenty-four hours, a day in order to rescue it. He knows that they have done so, and that they have been given credit for it in hundreds of instances. But at Broken Hill and Port Pirie, because they recognise that it can be avoided, the men object to working seven days a week. I am asked-How can

it be avoided? The honorable senator must know that if forty-two men are employed for seven days a week they will only do the same amount of work that forty-eight men will do in six days. It merely requires an increase in the number of employés by one-seventh to overcome the difficulty. Of course, it may be said that the additional hands would not be trained men. The answer to the contention is that those who have hitherto been working in the mines were not trained to the seven days a week when they started operations. Seeing that this was the stumblingblock which prevented a settlement of the dispute, Senator Walker, as a good Presbyterian, ought to be the first man to rise in the Senate and applaud the men for the stand which they took. With respect to industrial legislation, all that the present Government ask is that steps may be taken to place the Commonwealth Government in an exactly similar position to that occupied by the States Governments. They would then endeavour to see that if the men so desired, the latter should be called upon to work only six days a week. I might say more regarding some of the statements of Senator Walker in respect to the question of the currency, but I shall take another opportunity of doing so when I shall have more time at my disposal to convert such a hard-shelled Tory as he is. Oh, I made a mistake-I forgot that the honorable senator is not a Tory now. He belongs to the Liberal Protectionist Party, and I congratulate him upon his eleventh-hour conversion.

Senator PEARCE.-He is one of the anomalies.

Senator McGREGOR. Then he will have to be corrected. Although it may be necessary to give strong expression to one's opinions, I know that Senator Walker and other honorable senators opposite will acquit me of harboring any feeling of personal animosity towards them. The Government have put forward a policy in which they believe, and any resistance to it will meet with our most strenuous opposition. I anticipate a very merry time in the Senate before the session closes.

Senator W. RUSSELL (South Australia) [4.51].-It is difficult to abstain from embracing this opportunity to say a few words, especially after listening to the grand and able speech of Senator McGregor. I am

a Scotsman-I cannot help that-I was brought up in the Presbyterian Church, and taught the religion of my forefathers, and the shorter catechism. Senator Walker is a pillar of the church, and yet he does not fight for upholding the fourth commandment. So far as the Broken Hill strike is concerned, I do not call it a strike at all. It was a lock-out. The men fought for principle. for principle. The Proprietary Company. which during twenty years or thereabouts had paid about 500 per cent. in dividends, took it upon themselves, led by a good old Tory from South Australia, Mr. John Darling, to reduce wages. Other mines at the Barrier were paving the wages which the men in the employ of the Proprietary Company had previously received. Yet the latter were asked to accept a reduction. Had they done so, the other mines would also have reduced the wages of their emplovés. The men engaged at the Proprietary mine therefore said, "If we submit to the reduction, it will not only affect ourselves, but others." Consequently they stood to their guns, and I glory in the fact that some members of the Government took an active part in the strike. It is idle for Senator Walker to argue the pros and cons of the question, because I know that he has a great veneration for Judges. Need I remind him that the merits of the dispute were brought before Mr. Justice Higgins in his capacity as President of the Conciliation and Arbitration Court, and that he came to a wise decision, which was founded upon evidence? His decision was that the men's demands should be granted-that the wages asked for should be paid, and that they should only work six shifts a week, instead of seven.

Senator WALKER.-I do not object to that.

Senator W. RUSSELL.-But the Proprietary Company do. The party to which the honorable senator belongs voted against it. In fact, that was the principal reason why the Proprietary Company again appealed to the Court. They wanted to force men to work seven days a week, and if they could get them to work on holidays as well, including New Year's Day, they would do it. It was shown in evidence that the cost of living was such that people at Broken Hill and Port Pirie could not live with any degree of comfort on the wages they received. I know several of the workers at Port Pirie. I have gone amongst them. I topped the foll at Port Pirie when I stood for the Senate. I know men who were strong, robust fellows before they went to work at the smelters. But after working a time they got leaded. It fills my heart with grief when I think of "man's inhumanity to man."

Senator ST. LEDGER.-There certainly was a good deal of Mann's "inhumanity to

man."

Senator W. RUSSELL.-If such men were allowed to work not more than six days a week it would benefit their position. But that concession was not granted. The High Court refused it, on a technical point, of course; but the refusal was an injustice, and, as a Scotsman, I say that it was opposed to the law of God. Another thing let me say. I am disgusted to think that my co-religionists, the Presbyterians, the Scotsmen of Australia, knowing the circumstances under which these men have laboured, instead of standing by them as a Church, have stood for Mammon.

Senator ST. LEDGER.-Need we drag in the Church?

Senator W. RUSSELL.-I wrote to the Presbytery while it was sitting, but they would not interfere. I maintain that on a question of this kind, when the law of God is concerned and the health and interests of the human family are affected, the Church ought to show its interest in the workers and in the cause of humanity. But the Church did not. I suppose that some of the clergy had shares in the mine; or they had shareholders in their congregation who, perhaps, gave a little more on Sunday than I and such as I can send with my nily. I am not an infidel-I believe Word of God-I am so disgusted

with the action of the clergy and their inhumanity in these questions, that I am inclined to say to them, "Well, after all, you are merely human beings; you are here for making a living, and are no better Christians than others." I was astonished to listen to the words which came from an elder of the kirk who sits opposite to me. I did not intend to refer to this matter at all, but Senator Walker mentioned it in such a flippant manner that I do not think he did himself credit. I deeply regret that not only no single Presbyterian clergyman, but no clergyman of any other Church, had the pluck to stand by the men at Broken Hill and Port Pirie. Now I have done with that subject. I have a few words to say re the policy of the Government. I do not intend to blame the present Administration for some of the things to which I am about to refer, but I do not wonder at the people in some of the outlying districts protesting that Federation has been of little advantage to Australia. There is a farming district with which I am particularly well acquainted. In it there is a village which I have known for over thirty years. Before Federation, and for some years after, the post-office of that village was allowed an office boy to carry telegrams. Now that has been done away with and no messenger boy is allowed. There is no doctor living near, and the situation created is scandalous. The present Government is not to blame. It is the Deakin Government that is responsible. The Treasury during the régime of the man who, I believe, will shortly be Prime Minister again, was so depleted that it was said to be impossible to supply the wants of the people in these outer districts, and even the messenger boy to carry telegrams was done away with. I know another case where a telephone has been promised on the guarantee principle. The Deakin Government said that the people would have to guarantee a certain amount before the work could be carried out. The money or interest was guaranteed, not in the manner of those who promised a Dreadnought. The people handed over the amount in actual cash to cover the expense of erecting a telephone. Yet up to the present nothing has been done. Another town which I know well in South Australia wanted a telephone. The cost of making the connexion would be £6. But the Department, being unable or unwilling to find the £6, the people have had to do without.

Is

reported to have said-I think that he telieved the statement-that such a thing as a progressive land tax is immoral.

Senator VARDON.-So it is, absolutely. Senator W. RUSSELL.-If the honorable senator will prove that to me, I shall give up the idea.

Senator VARDON.-But I cannot undertake to do an impossibility.

Senator W. RUSSELL.-Knowing that the honorable senator is a religious man, I thought that the best thing to do to meet an emergency of that kind would be to refer to a great work.

Senator VARDON.-Is the honorable senator an irreligious man?

Senator W. RUSSELL.-I do not say that I am not, I hope that I am not. Senator NEEDHAM. Is the honorable senator going to quote from the Bible?

Senator W. RUSSELL.-Yes. When

our Saviour was on the earth, it was said of the prophets, "They are they which testify of me. When I read the speech of Senator Vardon, a text of scripture I had read frequently went through my mind. I was sure that it could be found, so I turned up the 5th Chapter of the Book of the prophet Isaiah.

Senator NEEDHAM.-But Senator Vardon is not a prophet.

Senator W. RUSSELL.--No, but he prophesies for the other side for the National Defence League of the Tory Party, who are against progress. In my opinion, they act against the interests of the poorer classes. Senator Vardon says that a progressive land tax is immoral. But what does the prophet say? In the eighth verse he says

Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the

earth!

That is very true. If any means can be devised to protect people against such men -and there is a great number of them in New South Wales-it should be done. In that grand country, which I have praised so much and I have not had any cause to change my mind-from Yass Junction right through Yass, and on through Canberra to Queanbeyan, very few people live. Large holdings exist all the way. Thousands of persons are in want of land, as I could show from statements in the Bulletin. Thousands of men are after land, and connot get it. Big land holders are prohibiting other persons from using the land, probibiting, as it were, an increase of popula

tion, and driving men from the States. Yet we were told that it is immoral to interfere with them. Who will believe that that is according to to the tenets of religion, or anything that is good? Undoubtedly, it is a mistake, and is not arguable. Then it is said: Leave the matter to the States." Senator Vardon himself said that it should be left to the States. If it is immoral for the Federal Parliament to interfere with these landowners, it is equally immoral for the States to do so. Senator Vardon knows that in South Australia it was impossible to get a progressive land tax carried through the ing sessions, the Legislative Council. In three succeedHouse of Assembly dealing with the question, but the House sent to the Legislative Council a Bill of wealthy landlords and the privileged class for only a few persons are allowed the suffrage can do what they like and line their own pockets. That is immoral, and South Australia has suffered. and is suffering. A lot of the land which is being settled there is of an inferior class. with a rainfall of from six to nine inches. The farmer is driven out into the scrub. Some of the best country is held by practically a few men to keep a few sheep. A merino is preferred to a human being.

Senator STEWART.-In Australia, the sheep is a sacred animal.

Senator W. RUSSELL.-I suppose it is. Unless I had a ticket, I could not go to hear Senator Vardon's address. The same course was taken here the other night, when Mr. Deakin was going to hold forth in the Town Hall. Having a little spare time. and wishing to get amusement or instruction, I thought I would attend, and I was lucky enough to find a ticket on the table in the senators' room. By means of it I not only got in myself, but I managed to smuggle in Senator Stewart with me. Senator Walker referred to some noisy meetings held in Sydney, and he blamed the Labour Party for all the trouble. When Mr. Joseph Cook went over to address the ladies in South Australia. the same secrecy was observed. One had to pass muster before he could get into the meeting. I had not the courage to try. But we are glad to welcome any one to labour meetings that they may hear an exposition of our platform and that we may sow the good seed.

Senator DE LARGIE.-Do we hold any meetings to which admission is by ticket only?