reducible to practice-Perhaps he may think, that as the prohibition impofed by the 10th of King William was repealed by the first of Geo. I., it follows, as a fact established by experience, that the English fishermen are unable to fupply this market with turbot. If this is the honourable gentleman's meaning, it is with peculiar pleasure, I inform him, that the reafon no longer fubfifts which prevented the fuccefs of the former attempt of the English to poffets themselves of the fishery in question.

The turbot fishery, it must be observed, can never be car. ried on to advantage, except by thofe who are in poffeffion of what is called the long-line fishery for cod; for, as the long lines which conftitute the most expenfive part of the ap paratus, are equally employed in both these fisheries, in that of cod for eight months, and in that of turbot during the reft of the year, it follows, that he who is not engaged in the former, can never expect to carry on the latter with profit. Now it appears by the evidence contained in the Third Report from the Committee appointed in the laft feffion of ParJiament, to inquire into the ftate of the fisheries, that till within the last fifteen years, the English were totally unacquainted with the long-line fifhery for cod; in which, however, they are at prefent, beyond comparifon fuperior to the Dutch. This only obftacle to fuccefs being now removed, I hope the honourable gentleman does not mean to say that the spirit and ardent exertions of the English will be found infufficient for the attainment of the object, and that there is in the Dutch a marked afcendency of character. Sir, the feamen of Great Britain reject with indignation the infulting idea of Dutch fuperiority; and, confident from experience, are impatient for the trial.

In the herring fishery, our veffels outnumber the veffels of Holland more than in the proportion of two to one — In the cod fishery, the English have no rivals In the fishery for whales, whether in the feas of the arctic circle, or on the confines of the fouthern pole, competition is nearly at an end. Have, then, their efforts fucceeded in every other enterprize, and are they unequal to this? Have they obtained a decided fuperiority in competitions infinitely arduous, and will they be baffled in this, the eafieft of all? But the honourable gentleman will tell me perhaps, for fomething of this fort his dark and enigmatical expreffions feem to imply, that he oppofes the bill from motives of ftate policy, founded on its probable effect on the temper and conduct of the Dutch, Does, then, the honourable gentleman conceive, that before Great Britain will dare to encourage her own feamen, and give protection to the interefts of her own people, leave muft

be

be asked and obtained of the Dutch? Does he really believe, that Britain will defcend fo entirely from her rank, will make herself fo very contemptible in her own eyes, and in those of all Europe! What are the honourable gentleman's apprehenfions? Does he tremble for our manufactures; does he think that new impofts upon them may be laid by the Dutch; or the old be corrected with unufual aufterity? It is a groundless fear; for, in burdening our manufactures, they would ruin the moft profitable trade they have. Does not the honourable gentleman know, that of the greatest part of the British goods they import, the Dutch are not the confumers, but merely the channel through which, with much advantage to themfelves, thofe goods are conveyed to the interior parts of Europe: or is he not aware, that in laying reftraints on the importation, their agencies, and all the various attending profits would at once be loft; I have heard many reflections on the national character of the Dutch, but never till now did I hear them charged with the folly of being utterly inattentive to their own interefts.

But groundless as the honourable gentleman's apprehenfions are, they are fo far an argument for delay, as they prove, that the nature and objects of this bill are entirely mifunderftood; an opinion in which I am ftrongly confirmed by the otherwife unaccountable objections that have been stated to me in private, as well as by many refpectable persons within this Houfe, feveral of whom are now in my eye, as by many confiderable merchants who are not members of the Legifla

ture.

That farther investigation would remove the prejudices they seem at prefent to entertain, I have not the smallest doubt: upon the whole, therefore, unfatisfied with partial confent, and perfectly convinced, that general concurrence can only be obtained by giving time for inquiry; perfuaded too, from the advanced ftate of the feafon, that in the prefent year the bill cannot be productive of much good; and equally aware, that if the veffels of England fhould be difcouraged by the lateness of the period from engaging in the fishery with effect, the tax on foreign veffels would be attended with fome inconvenience, I have no very material objection to an acquiefcence in a propofal for deferring, till the next feffion, the farther confideration of the fubject.

Mr. Dempfter rofe peremptorily to deny, that any foreign Mr. Dempfate whatever, was warranted to complain of this country's fter. exercifing her undoubted right of control over her own fifheries: the pooreft petty free ftates that ever exifted, at all times maintained their exclufive privilege of doing as they pleafed with their navigation, their trade, and their fifheries,

The

Mr Pye.

The Earl of
Surrey.

The Ear' of Surrey.

Mr. Minchin.

Mr. Chan

The motion was then put and agreed to.

The Houfe, after a remonftrance from the Speaker, on the impropriety of going into private bufinefs likely to be of any length, after the Houfe had been exhaufted by four or five hours debate on public bills, proceeded to hear counsel on the Severn-navigation bill.

Adjourned.

Wednesday, 12th April.

The Houfe went into a Committee on the bill for extending the powers of an act relative to Courts of Conscience.

Mr. Pye expreffed his fatisfaction at discovering that a defign of making an uniform regulation in regard to thefe courts through the whole kingdom had taken place; for he did not approve of laws being different in different places; but he could wish to fee the county courts restored univerfally in the fame manner as in the county of Middlesex, and which was much commended in Sir William Blackstone's Commentaries, as that would reftore the conftitutional trial by jury; whereas, by the prefent mode, Commiffioners were appointed to determine on the liberty and property of British fubjects.

The bill was ordered to be immediately reported.

The Earl of Surrey begged to know of the right honourable the Chancellor of the Exchequer, if it was his intention to bring forward any propofition this feffion on the important fubject of a reform of the reprefentation of the People in Parliament?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer anfwered in the negative.

The Earl of Surrey faid, that he would himself move a queftion on the fubject on the 1st of May.

Mr. Minchin defired to know, whether it was the intention of the right honourable the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to propose any thing this feffion relative to the foreft lands? He was afraid, unlefs precautions were used, of a scarcity of timber, which might materially affect the regulations in respect to fhipping and navigation as ftated by a right honourable gentleman (Mr. Jenkinfon) the preceding day. If, therefore the Chancellor of the Exchequer did not intend to make some motion on the fubject this feffion, he meant to take an early opportunity of offering to the confideration of the Houfe fome propofitions on the subject.

Mr. Chancellor Pitt anfwered, that he himself meant to cellor Pitt. bring on a difcuffion of this matter after the holidays; and if it fhould not meet the ideas of the honourable gentleman, he

would

would ftill be at liberty to make any motion he might think proper.

Mr. Jolliffe faid, it was his duty as a member of Parlia- Mr. Jolliffe, ment, to pay every poffible attention to the expenditure of public money, and it was the duty of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to give the Houfe every information on that subject. What induced him to make that obfervation was, that he had seen an advertisement in the newspapers fome time ago, for the fale of the materials of a houfe adjoining to the Admiralty, by order of the Lords of the Adiniralty: the house was now actually taken down and the materials removed. It was reported that great additions were to be made to the offices of the Admiralty, but whether that was true or not, it was necesfary (as the Public might be called on for payment) to know by what authority, and out of what fund, that house was purchased.

Mr. Chancellor Pitt replied, that the fit moment for an- Mr. Chanfwering the honourable gentleman's queftion, or entering into cellor Pitt, any difcuffion of the fubject of it, would be, when a claim

was made on the House for a fum of money to defray the expence of the building.

Mr. Huffey remonftrated against the expenditure of the pub- Mr. Huffey Jic money, in the erection of large and needlefs buildings. He understood that the estimate was 13,000l. but every man knew how greatly building estimates generally fell fhort of the real coft of the erection.

Mr. Brett affured the Houfe, that the building now erec- Mr. Brett. ting, was actually neceffary for the better carrying on of the public bufinefs, the Admiralty office neither affording room enough, nor conveniencies fufficient for the number of clerks employed. Many of them at prefent were obliged to write under ground, and others in apartments three or four ftories high, a circumftance which tended greatly to delay the ditpatch of bufinefs. Another inconvenience which arofe from the want of more room at the Admiralty office was, the want of fit apartments to arrange the various papers in and dispose of them in regular order, fo that they might be reforted to with eafe and readiness when wanted.

Mr. Chancellor Pitt begged leave to remind the Houfe, that Mr. Chanhe had, on a late occafion, hinted his intention to propofe cellar Pitt. fomething refpecting wines, the frauds practifed under which article were enormous, and robbed the Public to a very confiderable amount. It appeared that the wines imported into this country had decreafed in the proportion of fix or feven thousand tons every year, compared to the imports fifteen years ago; and yet it was a matter of undoubted fact, and indeed of notoriety, that there was, and had been for fome years paft, a much greater confumption of wine in the counVOL. XX.

try

The Earl of
Surrey.

Mr. Chan

cellor Pitt.

Mr. Demp

fer.

try than formerly: the Public therefore were lofers at leaft
in the proportion of duty on fix or feven thousand tons,
which amounted to three or four hundred thousand pounds,
and he believed a great deal more; for he was pretty certain
more than fix or feven thousand tons were annually imported
without paying the duty. Thefe frauds upon the revenue
called for the attention of the Houfe, and it became his duty
to inquire to what caule they were to be afcribed, and to fug-
geft fome means of prevention. The frauds in question had
been imputed to two caufes, and he fhould be inclined to
afcribe them partly to both, but principally to the latter,
viz. the fraudulent importation of a very confiderable quan-
tity of wines without paying the duty; and the file of a great
deal of mixed and made-up liquor under the denomination of
wine, but which in truth never was wine. As to the means
of remedying and preventing both thefe practices, that was the
fubject which he meant to bring forward after the holidays, and
as yet
he was fair to fay, he had not completely made up his
mind. Perhaps, if the Houfe would confent to it, one way
as effectual as any which could be fuggefted, would be, to
put a part of the duty on wines under the management of the
Board of Excife. A plan of this nature had been in agitation
fome years ago, but at that time it was ftrongly oppofed,
and in confequence abandoned. He apprehended, however,
that the principal reafon for that oppofition was, that it
was coupled with another object, which not being the cafe
at prefent, he hoped it would be perfectly palatable to the
Public, and particularly, when it was confidered, of how
great importance it was both to the revenue and to commerce.
He had not indeed yet fully investigated the subjeft, but
judged it requifite now to advert to it, that gentlemen might
make it an object of their ferious difcuffion previous to the
clofe of the recefs, and of course come prepared to fubmit to
the decifion of the Houfe their mature and well-digefted fen-
timents.

The Earl of Surrey remarked, that as fweets were chiefly ufed in the mixture of manufactured wines, a high duty on fweets would effectually answer the purpose.

Mr. Chancellor Pitt anfwered, that he by no means intended to apply fo partial a remedy: when he came forward with his propofition, he hoped it would appear fatisfactory.

Mr. Dempster wifhed to be informed by the right honourable gentleman, whether any thing was in agitation to remedy that prepofterous inconvenience of bonds and fees on carrying goods coaft ways; no fuch regulation was required upon exportation. Of the five boroughs which he had the honour to reprefent, three were feaports, and they had written very pref