conduct, must have produced them? He, for his own fhare, had forefeen and predicted them. The credit of the country had only rifen to its natural level. As to the pacific difpofition of foreign powers towards this country, how was the affertion afcertained? Were their Lordfhips to look at the edicts of the French Monarch, or the Emperor of Germany, as proots of the fact. If we were not engaged in actual war with either of thofe powers, we were furely engaged in an hoftility of commerce, which was no evidence either of our flourishing state, or general tranquillity. Nor did the prefent ftate of India, or of the Eaft-India Company, give any confolation on the fubject. The fituation of that country he conceived to be wretched. How elfe would a noble Lord (Macartney) have refufed to accept the government of it? That noble Lord would not, he was convinced, have declined it for frivolous reafons. He had not, indeed, when he received his appointment, approved of him as the most proper perfon that could have been employed; but he well knew hist activity, and his genius for enterprife; and he was convinced that he would not have been intimidated by circumftances of light concern. As to the ftate of the Eaft-India Company, that had afforded ground for general panegyric. But were the eulogiums fo profufely lavifhed on this topic, as well as on the commutation act, well founded, or juftly beftowed? He wished to direct the attention of their Lordships to a pamphlet which had been lately publifhed on this fubject. Many of their Lordships in their refearches on political fubjects might, no doubt, have perufed it. The pamphlet was entitled, "The Principles of the Commutation Act efta"blifhed by Facts." This pamphlet was the production of no ordinary perfon, but of a member of the other Houfe, a Director of the Eaft-India Company, and a perfon who had been uniformly attached to the interefts of the present Adminiftration. The pamphlet might therefore be confidered not as a Grub-street performance, but coming more immediately from Downing Street. It was the production of Mr. Baring. This pamphlet plainly announced the intentions of Government towards the Public: it fhewed that the principles of the commuta ion act had failed of fuccefs, and exhibited the unpleafing profpect to the nation of Government being under the neceffity of borrowing no lefs a fum than three millions and two hundred thoufand pounds. If this then was fact, and he feared that it was, where was there room for boafting of a measure which, in its progrefs, had produced fo unhappy an effect? Under thefe circumftances, he felt it impoffible to give his vote in favour of every fyl lable of the addrefs, unless their Lordships would please to confent to the omiffion of the words "falutary work."

Lord

Lord Sydacy.

The Earl of
Carlifle.

Lord Sydney expreffed his hopes that the noble Earl would heartily concur with him, that the commercial arrangement which has been fubmitted to the confideration of the Irish Parliament was founded at leaft in what properly might be denominated falutary principles. All fides profeffed a regard for the mutual interefts of both countries. So far they were united; and he contended, that this was the falutary motive in which the propofitions had originated, how differently foever their Lordships might think of the fuperftructure which had been erected on this foundation. He flattered himself that the noble Earl would fee the matter in its proper light; and not perfift in his refolution of giving his negative to the addrefs under the limitation which he had ftated. The treaty with Ireland, though fufpended for a time, he did not think himself in any refpect authorised to fay, was finally and for ever abandoned. There was no expreffion, either in the fpeech or in the addrefs, which countenanced the idea. The Parliament of Ireland was ftill at liberty to refume it, The Parliament of this country might again take it into confideration.

The Earl of Carlisle wished that the noble Lord would more explicitly defcribe the intention of Government to revive another fyftem of commercial arrangement between Ireland and this country. He looked to the noble Lord, in his official capacity, for an answer to that question. Was another mad fyftem to be fet on foot? Was the old one to be revived? His Majefty's most gracious fpeech ftated, that no effectual step has hitherto been taken by Ireland, to enable the Parliament of this country to make any farther progrefs in that falutary work. What did the phrafe " effectual ftep" imply? Did it mean, that Ireland had it ftill in contemplation to revive the plan of commercial arrangement fuggefted? or that this country was waiting, in patient expectation, till fuch time as fhe fhould refume the confideration of the measures which, in his idea, fhe had rejected; nor could he help rejoicing that they feemed to be for ever abandoned. Which of thefe fignifications was he to adopt? This point, he hoped, would be decided by the noble Lord. He then adverted to what had fallen from the noble Lord who feconded the motion (Lord Fortefcue) relative to the judgement which had been difplayed by Ministers with regard to the objects of taxation. This point of difcernment and prudence, he did not think, was as yet fuffici ently afcertained. Minifters were not to be tried fo much by what was paft as by what was to come. And, indeed, he fhould difpute the wifdom of their government, were he to judge from what had already occurred. Was their conduct refpecting India deferving of praife? How had the Board of

3

Control

Control acted with refpect to the affair of the Nabob of Arcot? Had they not countenanced the fchemes of ufury intended to be practised against that unfortunate Prince, in oppofition to the fentiments of a noble Lord (Macartney) and in express compliance with thofe of the late Governor, whom they had, notwithstanding, fubfequently recalled.

Lord Walfingham faid, that it was not without astonish- Lord Walment and concern that he heard cenfures fevere and unjust fingham. levelled against the Board of Control, to which he himself belonged. He could vindicate the progrefs of their procedure. They had acted with much juftice in the bufinefs, and instead of expofing, had, in fact, rescued the Nabob of Arcot from thofe miferies to which, in lefs fortunate times, he had been fubjected. The defcriptions which had been given relative to the state of India, he was perfuaded, would be found to be fallacious. There was no ground for alarm. The Eaft-India Company, he flattered himself, would be found fully adequate to the demands which would be made on it; and he hoped their Lordships would not be misled by any ftories which might be industriously propagated to the contrary.

Lord Storment declared, that he could not avoid confider- Lord Storing his acquiefcence with the motion (were it poffible that he mont. could lofe himself in inconfiftency as carrying) to the Throne his fentiments of approbation of measures, which, as a friend to this country, and as a friend to Ireland, he had maturely examined, and pointedly condemned. The fpeech, as well as the addrefs, feemed to applaud the commercial arrangement which had been fubmitted to Ireland, and rejected by that country, as being falutary. This had never been his opinion of the measure, and it was a fentiment which he could not adopt. Whilft, however, he touched on this point, he could not help obferving, that the object, which had been uniformly holden out during the progrefs of the whole bufinefs by Administration, had been fruftrated and expofed by the event of the tranfaction. What had been the language of Ministers -"Precipitate the bufinefs-Ireland is on the tiptoe of ex"pectation. Delay not procedure." But how had this conclufion of the matter tallied with thofe arguments of urgency? The facts were now before the public; and what had formerly been only matter of prediction, was now fubject of history. As to the fpeech it was a compofition, which, from its nature, did not admit of great difplay of ability. It was too fhort for fuch exhibition of faculty. Though it might not, however, poffefs this diftinction, yet there was a species of dexterity employed in the ftructure of it. Truths were kept out of view, which it might have been dangerous to difclofe. This maxim in compofition had

been

been religiously adhered to. This, no doubt, was prudent, as there was little to fay, and much to fhun. Much had been advanced concerning the tranquillity of this country with regard to Europe. It had been denied that there had been any hoftility exifting between this country and the continental powers: more, however, was afferted in the fpeech, "the "ftrongest affurances of friendly difpofition towards this "country," it was affirmed, predominated at the prefent moment. How this affertion could be reconciled to the edicts of France and the Emperor of Germany, refpecting the articles of commercial intercourfe, he was at a lofs to devife. He adverted next to the fituation of India-he defcribed the neceffities of the Company. They had not, he alledged, been able to advance money to pay their army, and he was affured that fome of the officers, on this account, had been under the neceffity of felling the buckles in their shoes for the purpose of fupplying their exigencies. Thefe evils were heightened by the act which had been paffed for the better regulation of India. Of that act he had uniformly dif approved. He had confidered it as ineffectual alfo in its operation. It was a fetter to honeft men, and a cobweb to knaves. It was felt as a grievance by thofe whom it had deprived of the birth-right of Englishmen; and it was framed in terms fo inaccurate, and the inconveniencies, on this account, had been fo fenfibly felt, that the revifal, if not the repeal of it, would be abfolutely neceffary. He, as well as others, had predicted the oppofition with which it would meet; and what he faid on this point, as well with respect to Ireland, was no longer. fpeculation, but matter of hiftory. The establishment of a fund for the payment of the national debt was no doubt an object of great intereft. In this point, however, as well as with refpect to the marine of the country, he was afraid that the French, our natural enemies, had gotten the better of us in the race. Ever fince the conclufion of the war, they had been paying off their debt, by appropriating a large fum for that purpofe. They had alfo directed their chief attention to their marine, and he was afraid that they built fhips fafter than we did. With refpect to the German league, there was a peculiarity in this tranfaction which merited attention. His Majefty's Ministers had received a communication of the confederacy eftablished in the Germanic body, from the King of Pruffia, as Elector of Brandenburgh. This, he believed, was the firft notification of the kind which had appeared fince the acceffion. There was therefore, furely time for paufe. A matter of this nature, in which the commercial interefts of the nation were so materially involved, merited mature investigation. Avowed concurrence was dangerous; and a filly bow, inftead of an ex

planation

planation of fentiment, was the moft proper return that could have been adopted. This, however, as the noble Lords attempted to prove, from a copy of the reply to the King of Pruffia from His Majefty's Ministers, had not been the cafe. They had affected a concurrence of view with him as to German politics; and the event had shewn how unwife the measure had been. Neither could he approve of Minifters with refpect to the alliance which had been obtained betwixt France and Holland. That alliance had been figned a fortnight previous to the memorial from this country in oppofition to it. In fhort, every barber and porter at the Hague knew of its existence before we took the least notice of it. How this could be explained, unless by the abfence of the Secretary of State for foreign affairs, he was at a lofs to determine. The fact, however, could not be queftioned. The neceffity of foreign alliance he had ever confidered as effential to the exiftence of this country. Whilft foreign powers were engaged in this work, he hoped that His Majefty's Ministers had not been inattentive to it. He had heard that various treaties were in fpeculation, and that one with Ruffia was more particularly intended. This idea, he hoped, would be realized. He had ever confidered a connection with that growing empire as a corner ftone of the fabric, and would be happy to fee it effected, as it might lead to another with Denmark. Difficulties would, doubtlefs, attend a commercial arrangement with France. He would warn Minifters of its danger. A reduction of duties and an open trade might produce diftrefsful effects. It would hurt our trade with Portugal. It would hurt the diftilling of liquors in this country. It would of courfe affect the landed intereft, and be productive of very bad confequences in this point of view. Touching the interefts of fo many, it probably would prove an object too delicate for the attention of Minifters and the Public at large.

In conclufion, Vifcount Stormont expreffed his determination to vote against the motion.

Lord Ofborne (Marquis of Carmarthen) declared, that he Lord of felt neither difficulty nor reluctance in giving the noble Vif- borne. count the fatisfaction to which he confidered him entitled. He felt himself, at all times, refponfible in his fituation; but whether his official capacity compelled him, on all occafions, to answer inquifitive interrogatories, or to obviate curious and frivolous objections, he would leave it to their Lordships to decide. At prefent, however, he felt no difficulty in meeting the noble Vifcount. There were two points on which he had charged His Majefty's Minifters with a defect of duty they related to the Germanic league, and the commercial treaty betwixt France and Holland. With regard

VOL. XX.